Picture by Slane Cartoons
I was asked if I would speak at the GCSB Bill protest in Hamilton last Saturday.
I had to decline because I said I had not read the Bill, and that I did not know enough about it to say that it was Bad legislation.
Now get this straight…. I believe DotCom has been very unjustly treated, and that John Key was as guilty as Sin and is lying through his teeth in respect to his complicity in this crime against a NZ resident… and also that I believe John Key seeks to rush through this Bill because he believes it will help him when he faces up and coming Criminal charges for his part in the GCSB Crimes Re: Dotcom and others.
One is reminded of Helen Clark’s ‘Pledgecardgate’ Electoral Fraud and misappropriation crimes and her rushing retrospective legislation to halt her High court conviction and the nullification of the Labour election victory over Don Brash.
….Thus I am fully aware that John Key and the GCSB have already abused the powers they have, and thus we must question any notion of granting them further powers to abuse!
None the less I could not say I oppose the bill, because in spite of all this shyster John Key business, I do believe that there could be legitimate National security issues at stake.
Let me elaborate further.
John key has said that the new legislation would not legitimise what the GCSB did to Dotcom.
John Key also said the GCSB bill will not legalise the Government collecting, storing and eavesdropping all New Zealanders Internet and phone communications… Ie the GCSB bill is not a part of ‘Prism’.
John Key’s has now made further claims that we need the GCSB Bill because there are Al Qaeda Operatives here
…Yet What evidence do we have to support that last claim?
I am not saying that’s impossible for Al Qaeda to be here, but why should we accept it on the word of such a dishonest Scum bag as Key?
Why doesn’t Key say the truth?…. Ie that the GCSB Bill would have been of value in the Tu Hoe Raids, and that Tame iti would probably be in Jail for 20 years had the GCSB Bill been in place at the Time Iti was planning Domestic Terrorism!
It was only because bungling Anti-terrorist legislation that allowed Tame Iti and those Psychotic Tree-hugging Greens to escape… because just like the Dotcom case… In spying on Tame Iti and co, the Powers that be broke the Law, and thus the evidence they gathered about Planned hijacking and murder was inadmissible.
John Key cant mention this valid example for spying because of his cosy relationship with the Maori Party.
For me it was the discovery of what Tame Iti was up to which has made me appreciate that there are Rare circumstances of National security in which spying might be justified.
I dont believe that spying on Drug dealers is at all justifiable… because I dont believe dealing or
using drugs is a Crime…nor a threat to National security.
I dont believe the spying on Dotcom was justifiable either because he’s not a threat to anything but a Happy meal… or 20.
The Tuhoe terrorism scare was a very different kettle of fish.
The Police raids and arrests were a result of a covert spy operation in the Urewera bush whereby special ops were able to film a terrorist training camp and to eavesdrop on conversations about kidnapping and murder.
Tami iti and a collection of Maori Radicals and Extremist Greens were practising Military/ Guerilla type drills using fire arms and home made explosives/ fire bombs.
And by my way of thinking if there is a known conspiracy to commit terrorism or murder, I have little problem believing it is the duty of Government to act covertly and pre-emptively to prevent innocent people being harmed.
This is all a very messy situation… It presents me with a conundrum… because had Tame Iti merely been doing Militia combat training, and not talked about ‘practising’ killing on unfortunate ‘Pakeha’ I would have no grounds to say he was committing any crime.
And yet that is not the case.
He was planning Murder, Kidnapping, and the armed Overthrow of the the NZ government via terrorist means.
Yet still ….and this is where things get even more muddled….I also believe it is fine to practice for a revolution… the overthrow of a tyrannical government by force… Indeed I believe the only thing that can keep a Government from over reaching it’s just powers is a fear of the People uprising… thus in a free society I believe that many New Zealanders ought to be training for such an event.
The dilemma is how to maintain the rights of the population to prepare for a justifiable revolution… and yet also maintain the legitimate government’s ability to cut off Domestic terrorism… ie Unjust revolutions such as Tame Iti was planning.
The dilemma is how to grant the government the power to spy and record evidence against such criminal organisations as Tame itis Terrorists… but forbid them from being able to spy on the Righteous militia and their plans to overthrow an evil Government?
The Dilemma gets worse when you appreciate the reality that Tame Iti and his Band of Violent Greens believed their cause was Just.
Now I myself would love to see our oppressive government overthrown :-)!
Yet my reasoning and justification is the exact opposite of Tame Iti and his TuHoe Terrorists.
They did not seek to establish a New Order of justice, Freedom, and equality, but to impose a severe Racist dictatorship… a lot like George Speight attempted to set up in Fiji… and like Mugabe was able to set up in Zimbabwe.
And Iti’s, Speights, and Mugabes Revolutions are to be juxtaposed against the latest military Coup in Egypt which has just overthrown the Elected government there because they were breaching the constitution and attempting to set up an Islamic State, and with Commodore Bainimarama’s righteous Coup in Fiji, who overthrew the Elected government there because they were busy setting up an apartheid system of Indigenous Rights.
Now Time has proven Bainimarama to be a very Benevolent Authority… with relatively few incidents of troop violence against the citizens of Fiji, and yet there have been some reported cases of serious violence purported by the Egyptian army against outraged Islamic Egyptians protesting the Coup… thus I hesitate to give full endorsement to the Revolutionary Cause.
These sorts of issues show just how difficult it is for any revolution to maintain the High/ righteous ground and avoid actions which are unjustifiable.
We must never forget that a righteous end cannot be used to justify corrupt means.
Some people may recoil at the Idea of the armed overthrow of an elected government… as if Mob rule is always right. It isn’t. The reality is all forms of Government can become oppressive, unjust, and tyrannical if they implement Laws which are purely Arbitrary, Oppressive, unjust, and tyrannical.
All governments ought to be ‘hemmed in’ by an Iron-clad Constitution… this is what constitutes the Rule of Law… and when any government violates the Constitution it has become a Criminal organisation which needs to be abolished and New government instituted.
It also ought to be obvious that the only power possible to protect a legitimate government from being overthrown by an Evil Military Coup is by having a well armed population trained in Militia.
The Army will hesitate from any actions when it knows the people will rise up and fight.
This has been a very heavy trip!
Spying…. Terrorism… Corrupt Politicians…Armed revolution… Constitutions…. etc
These were some of my thoughts in respect to the GCSB bill, and why I hesitate to either endorse the Bill or to protest against it.
John Key is a Dirty lying scumbag Quisling and does not deserve to be granted more powers, and I fully support Dotcoms cause against the NZ Government… and yet there is so much more to this issue.
I believe we need more time to ponder what is at stake…. what are all the pitfalls, and in what final form such a Bill might be Good for New Zealand.
The Privacy of New Zealanders must not be curtailed under the guise of National security, and yet There must be means of identifying and catching terrorists before they strike.
It must be appreciated that it was because of poorly framed and rushed through Anti-terrorist legislation that allowed Tame iti and the Tuhoe terrorists to escape justice.
The Solicitor-General David Collins ruled that law was “almost impossible to apply in a coherent manner” and firearms charges were laid instead.
The last thing we need is more Bad legislation being rushed trough by a corrupt Prime minister who is seeking to mitigate his own culpability in regards to ongoing charges of Corruption and abuse of power.
That Key has played the Al Qaeda card is very suspect… and yet worrisome.
I also worry about the political connection between the PM and the GCSB.
We have all found out about John Keys devious Employment of his own Old school friend to the Head of the GCSB!…. Heinrich Himmler anyone???
Tim Wikiriwhi.
Christian Libertarian.
Read my Free Radical article on Bainimarama’s Fijian Coup and The Right of Revolution’ Here:
Read about my condemnation of Tame Iti’s evil intentions Here>>> Not a Pimple on Mandela’s Butt! Tama Iti
Read about…. The Shame of Maori Radicalism. Hate and Violence. Here:
Read about New Zealand’s ‘Cold’ Civil War. Constitutional Crisis. Here:
Read about… Where Haters come from. Here:
Read about Read about… Universal Pride in Washington, Separatist Shame in Wellington. here:
Read about…. State of Confusion. The Rule of Law vs The Mandate of the Majority. New Zealand’s Constitutional Crisis. Here:
Read about…. Low Lives in High Places. Water and John Key’s Racist Alliance here:
Read about… The Great Waitangi Swindle. Here:
Read about… Trojan Horse: The UN Separatist Declaration of Indigenous Rights. here:
Syndicated:
http://tdj.transegoism.us/bill-support-gcsb/
And we are in sync. I was thinking about writing something like this myself, with a slightly different spin on Chief Kessler’s Constitutional Security Force.
Cool Mark. Why not write something anyway???? 🙂
I may just do that!
Thank God you didn’t speak at the meeting eh Tim, because you really seem to have a terribly limited view on security.
Let’s take your favorite fear, those terrible radical Maaaoris. Even IF dem Maaaoris was ups to no goods, why the living Christ does that justify allowing the Government to turn a military grade spying apparatus against the domestic population of NZ?
Why does dem Maaoris justify changing the focus of the GCSB from national security to economic well being?
Why does dem Maaaaoris justify mass trawling of metadata?
And why does dem Maaaaoris justify the mass application of search warrants rather than individualized ones?
The Police have easily enough powers to deal with your favorite bogeyman, the GCSB doesn’t need to be involved at all for that surveillance.
Martyn,
That is exactly the sort of thing I wanted to discuss here, and why I did not speak.
I believe there ought to be a separation between the Army and the police… with the army being forbidden from arresting or deploying against the citizenry.
I express my concerns about such powers being used to suppress legitimate revolutionary actions by Patriots who have the right to overthrow an oppressive government even when it has a mandate of the majority.
eg It would have been legitimate for a German to assassinate Hitler… and it would be legitimate for a Zimbabwean to assassinate Mugabe.
Yet The GCSB bill is not about employing the Army, but about Legal spying on Terrorists… like Al Qaeda and The Tu Hoe terrorists… something which current legislation failed on an is the only reason Tami Iti and those evil Green scum bags are not doing a very long lag in Jail!
I take it you Martin are a Tame Iti sympathiser?
Please state your position on the Tu Hoe raids.
Tim.
It’s Martyn, not Martin.
A tiny amount of research would reveal my position on Tame Iti and his merry militia. I am one of the few on the left who has been highly critical of those involved in the Urewera camps. As a left wing progressive democratic activist I never believe guns have a place in political discourse. If it was the National Front running around in the bush training with weapons, I’d want an eye kept on them too.
That said I don’t believe for one second that Tame Iti was a terrorist or that it deserved the over kill the Police launched. As a Libertarian you should be horrified at the abuse of Civil Rights wrecked upon the people of Tuhoue who were caught up in this ridiculous case, interesting to note you are very quiet on that front.
Also as a Libertarian I would be expecting you to be screaming about the $14m cost of that failed investigation, and how the cost could have justified the need to paint these activists comments a far darker shade of treason than they normally otherwise would have.
No comments from you regarding civil rights abuse or outrageous Tax Payer cost??? Are you sure you understand Libertarianism?
I think the biggest mistake of your blog is that you seem to have no idea what it is you are talking about.
You do understand right that if the Police wanted to plant surveillance devices on these people they suspect of Terrorism, that the search and surveillance powers the Government passed allow them to do that.
In fact, those powers are so wide ranging, they allow for the Police to break into your home, plant a spy camera and spy on you for 3 days without much judicial oversight.
You seem confused about what these changes will actually allow. So let me spell it out. The GCSB will be allowed, for the first time, to spy on NZers, not just for the National Interest, but for economic well being. This combined with the new ‘class’ category of search warrant means any corporation, can make a case to the Police that any activist group might be a risk to corporate profits, meaning the Police could apply to the GCSB to trawl anyone’s metadata who may be considered a threat to that corporations profit margin.
For example. A large oil company believes protestors on the East Coast want to protest their drilling. They complain to the Government and Police, those agencies apply to the GCSB to spy on all Maori and Greenpeace members on the East Coast.
How can a Libertarian with a tiny government complex not become enraged at the mass surveillance and erosion of privacy for all those inadvertently spied upon?
Let’s say Corporate Hollywood come a knocking and say they believe people aged under 16 are highly likely to be illegally copying their intellectual property rights. They complain and the GCSB starts spying on everyone under 16.
You see how easily abused this power can be and yet your problem is with Maaaaaoris, even though Tim those simplistic terrorist fears off yours could be accommodated within the existing search and surveillance powers.
I have questions about the GCSB.
I don’t want this rushed through.
I know there are reasons why There could be valid reasons for legitimate Spy operations…. eg Tame iti and the Tu Hoe Terrorists and yet Do such groups really represent a greater threat to New Zealanders than a tyrannical and intrusive State?
I think Not.
Tyranny is a far bigger threat than domestic terrorism.
Upon Further Reports Martyn, You will be happy to hear I am now fully convinced that the GCSB Bill is being Ram Roded trough for all the most devious reasons….
🙂
http://blog.eternalvigilance.me/2013/08/osculum-infame-john-keys-smarmy-smile-and-the-real-reason-for-the-gcsb-bill-the-daily-blog/
So apparently you “Tim” (aka one who believes in what he writes so much that he’s not willing to share his full name) have evidence that Tame Iti of Tuhoe (not Tu Hoe you racist dipshit) wanted to kill / kidnap Pakeha as practice for overthrowing NZ, its armed police force, special forces and army divisions to “impose a severe Racist dictatorship”? All of which planned in collusion with those “Extremist” Greens (lol) who we know are guilty because they were in possession of a book entitled ‘Resistance: An Indigenous Response to Neoliberalism’.
Anybody so ignorant as to fool themselves into believing a diabetic grandfather artist / media personality taking part in youth camps is a threat to national security is obviously seeing the world through warped lenses. I pity you and the fact that your parents were obvious child abusers to bring up a child with such a skewed idea about his own place in the world and the place of others. Fact is despite how the law is worded Tame and the Greens are guity in your eyes simply because they think and appear differently from yourself, this is not a crime; this “article” however should be, if you’re gunna make fantastic claims back it up with facts not bullshit and propaganda. Do the world a favor and read a book before beating yourself to death with it, this should work for you as apparently the whole world is out to get you anyway.
From Wikipedia on the botched anti-terrorism laws that let Tame iti off the hook…
2007 New Zealand police raids[edit]
See also: 2007 New Zealand police raids
In October 2007, the NZ Police carried out several raids across New Zealand and arrested 17 individuals, charging them under the Terror Suppression Act for involvement in so-called “military style training camps.”[23] For the prosecutions to go ahead the attorney general’s consent under section 67 of the act was required. Under delegated authority from then Attorney General Michael Cullen, then solicitor general David Collins announced on 8 November 2007 that he was:
“…Unable to authorise the prosecutions that have been sought under the Terrorism Suppression Act. There is insufficient evidence to establish to the very high standard required that a group or entity was planning or preparing to commit a terrorist act, as that term is defined in the legislation.”[24]
As a result of this decision, the charges under the act were dropped as were any form of prosecution of the vast majority of those arrested. Only firearms charges against four of the accused were eventually successful.[25] Because of Collin’s criticism that the act was, “Unnecessarily complex” and, “Incoherent” he recommended the act be sent to the law commission for review.[26]